Murders in the Big Easy
The recent shootings are not helping the image of New Orleans as it tries to recover. However, blaming poverty and public schools is not the answer.
“The spotlight Katrina put on the city showed the real reason for these murders abject poverty and a poor education system,” Councilman James Carter said. “We have to go from looking at this as a strict law enforcement situation and take a more holistic approach.”
Councilman Carter: How about holding individuals accountable for bad acts? One does not need a fist-full of dollars or a diploma to understand that commandment that thou shalt not kill.
July 30th, 2006 at 5:43 pm
Are you kidding? Why do you think macro economics can alter individual behaviors in spending, but macro socialology does not alter individual behavior. You are confusing CAUSATION with CULPABILITY. Ignorance at combined with self righteous morality does not make a good governance or a safer, better society.
July 30th, 2006 at 5:46 pm
Obviously I butchers the grammer in that last sentence… so much for on the fly editing. Yes, I am aware of the irony. The point stands.
July 30th, 2006 at 6:14 pm
I can’t get over it. I read the article you linked to and saw nothing suggesting the people responsible were not being prosecuted and held accountable.
The councilman simple wants to create conditions were people are less likely to engage in captical crimes because they have more to lose, because they are more enmeshed in society. It is easier for a broke, ignorant person to risk committing murder than someone with a middle class job. Economically, they simply have less to lose.
July 30th, 2006 at 10:21 pm
Isn’t the objection to the councilman’s identification of poverty and poor education as the “real reasons” for the murders?
Nothing in the original post denies that other factors can play a part. Rather, I read William’s post as countering the councilman’s reductionistic claim that murder is the logical result one gets from adding poverty to poor education. It’s not that simple of an equation, and it’s actually rather dehumanizing to portray New Orleans residents as such.
July 31st, 2006 at 12:53 am
Just send criminal youths to jail earlier and for longer periods of time. Angola prison is huge.
July 31st, 2006 at 1:07 am
“…I read William’s post as countering the councilman’s reductionistic claim that murder is the logical result one gets from adding poverty to poor education.”
To be fair, one could also read William’s post as countering one reductionist claim with an equally reductionist claim. Yes, if we all followed the Ten Commandments to a “T” we wouldn’t need policemen or courts or armies. But it’s a well-known fact that we don’t, and therefore we do. It’s also a well-known fact that poverty and lack of education don’t help matters in this regard.
July 31st, 2006 at 3:03 am
>However, blaming poverty and public schools is not the answer.
Though I don’t think anyone will argue that less poverty and better public schools, regardless of the reasons, will increase the crime rate overall.
The Weed and Seed program that Carter touted in his campaign increases overall law enforcement and at the same time addresses other causes of crime. Weed and Seed doesn’t give out fists full of dollar or dimplomas. It does encourage kids to go to school and/or get a job.
July 31st, 2006 at 3:05 am
>dimplomas
Oh, dear. Sorry about that.
July 31st, 2006 at 8:14 am
Grover, I’m not sure how, at least in this post, one could read William in the way you suggest. He writes this:
“Councilman Carter: How about holding individuals accountable for bad acts?”
I think this fits in rather nicely with your entirely good point about police, courts, etc. Nowhere does William dismiss other factors, he’s just says “other factors” aren’t everything, and that holding folks accountable is what’s lacking.
Though to be sure I am no Williamologist; perhaps he’s made other posts suggesting other factors like poverty or education don’t count (we know how much having a father at home DOES count). Of course, he could clear that up pretty easily by just telling us.
July 31st, 2006 at 9:52 am
I think his point is clear, DP, and he’s within his rights to criticize the paper and/or the councilman for a facile quote that passes the buck to the government/society/etc. But his response strikes me as equally simplistic. The whole NOLA thing is a huge mess that everyone seems eager to forget about now that the crisis of Katrina has passed and they’re still wading around in muck down there. I admit to reacting a bit to the whole “why can’t people just behave and take responsibility” thing. It’s no more of an answer than the councilman’s sound bite.
July 31st, 2006 at 11:19 am
The point is this: Without discussing the facts of the murders or the murderers, the Councilman automatically cries poverty and poor schools. I think this is irresponsible to have a knee-jerk reaction where crime is automatcially the result of these external factors. Sure, many factors influence our behavior, but bottom line these are not excuses for individuals who violate the basic truisms of right and wrong.
July 31st, 2006 at 11:34 am
I saw this article at officer.com and admit that I had the same initial reaction as William. If Councilman Carter wants to bitch about the state of N.O. education and economy, I’d say he’s a little late to the debate. That city is in trouble right now and has more than its fair share of murdering bastards (hereinafter referred to as the MB’s). How did these poor souls become MB’s? Maybe they had a lousy childhood, a crappy education or maybe they’re poor. OR, just maybe, they’re dag-nasty evil and walked away from good opportunities all their life, choosing rather to rape, pillage and kill. One of these post-Katrina MB’s came to my town and murdered a 19 year old 7-11 clerk for petty cash. I’m currently working on this MB’s capital murder case and I’ll do everything I can do to see to it the MB gets the DP. I’ll let the defense whine and worry about the MB’s disadvantaged life.
Perhaps N.O. needs an aggressive weed and seed program but, for now….they’ve got a lot of weeding to do.
July 31st, 2006 at 12:52 pm
I should not that most serial murders are committed by well educated Middle to Upper class men. Will more education help them…kill more people?
I also believe the numbers of murderers in the lowest economic strata are disproportionately blacks. This DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE GENETICLY BIASED TOWARDS THAT BEHAVIOR. However, it may mean that the society of the black underclass is completely corrupt and needs to be replaced by something else. That something does not mean throwing money at the system.
If there is a legacy of the slave system this is it. In our zeal to free them we went to far and made them a dependent state (something that the worst elements of the South were only to happy to aid). That needs to change.
July 31st, 2006 at 1:39 pm
I grew up in NO and once stared into the barrel of a pistol wielded by a NO MB. I can concur in a way that poverty and poor education have something to do with it. I contend that poverty and poor education are a RESULT of the criminal behavior, which is a RESULT of a total breakdown in the civilization of the black urban community. There has been no civilizing force in the housing projects for over 2 generations. The illegitimacy rate is nearing 100%. We can thank the great society for that–what an ironic name.
July 31st, 2006 at 5:09 pm
“I admit to reacting a bit to the whole “why can’t people just behave and take responsibility” thing. It’s no more of an answer than the councilman’s sound bite.”
Actually, it is much more of an answer. Those who hold to the idea that poverty and lack of education leads to crime insult the millions, no, the billions of the truly poor who have lived on this planet and not murdered their neighbors. I lived in New Orleans the year in-a-half before Katrina kicked us out, and I can say that it is one decadent city/culture. I have never been anywhere else in the US that had such a large and sustained culture of criminality. Yes, it was partly sustained by the broken and decadent school system (as a computer professional I spent some time at several elementary and middle schools). What the councilman wants of course is not really more “moral” schools, but simply more $dollars$ because that is the easy answer. Schools and their quality obviously arise out the general culture. Throwing more $$$ at a criminal culture only makes the criminals rich…
July 31st, 2006 at 6:54 pm
“Those who hold to the idea that poverty and lack of education leads to crime insult the millions, no, the billions of the truly poor who have lived on this planet and not murdered their neighbors.”
I didn’t say they led to crime, I said they exacerbate the problem.
“What the councilman wants of course is not really more “moral” schools, but simply more $dollars$ because that is the easy answer.”
I think I expressed my opinion that the councilman’s statement was superficial and unacceptable.
Money isn’t the final answer, but when you have NO money it’s pretty hard to change things. My niece worked with Teach America and by far her worst experience was in NOLA. And this compared to some pretty rough places. By all means let’s work to change the culture there, but let’s not be simplistic either way.
July 31st, 2006 at 7:52 pm
“I didn’t say they led to crime, I said they exacerbate the problem.”
I disagree. In fact, Christianly speaking, riches exacerbate the problem (morally speaking), not the other way around.
“Money isn’t the final answer, but when you have NO money it’s pretty hard to change things”
They have plenty of $money$, as do every other school in the richest country that the earth has ever seen. There is nothing wrong with the school system in NOLA that money can solve.
“By all means let’s work to change the culture there, but let’s not be simplistic either way.”
Agreed. Now, how do you change a culture? I really don’t know - I just know money is not going to be part of the solution. Actually, one way (possibly) to do it is to spread a large portion of the criminal element around the country, disrupting their base and habits. Will it work? I believe it will help some. They at least now have chance to end up in a different environment. Let’s pray they take the opportunity…